[Midnight_Garage]

a minispool is a solid metal block that replaces the spider gear assembly. making the diff completely locked. If you have no backlash in the spider gears it is all in the crown wheel and pinion gear, so will require re-shimming. your better off to buy a second hand lowish kays diff from someone else. R180's are worth very little these days, far cheaper than having anything done to your diff anyways.

[1onenil0]

hey mate i feel ur pain with the diffs

i suggest:

why are you even thinking about rebuilding? A rebuild will cost you WAY more than a good condition r200, let alone a good cond r180. you wont be able to do it yourself if you don't even know how to weld up the centre and what to look for when welding it up... there are so many thing sto get perfect for it not to wear out quick or make bad noises etc.......

I still suggest buy a 2nd hand r200 lsd for ? $200-250 or a 2nd hand r180 for i dont know around 80-150 and be done with it..

from my limited experience with diffs I would say that the 1cm of turning the tailshaft you can do is because of the ring gear and pinion gear not set up correctly, or just worn... maybe bearings are gone? I dont know the correct wording for it, but backlash, maybe? It's where the ring gear and pinion gear are nto meeting perfectly. Thats why we pay diff rebuilders.

Hope that helps

If you get really stuck i might have a spare r200 LSD here you can check out if you want, im in brisbane..... or an r200 worn out LSD that only single wheels but you could shim it up....

[1onenil0]

just read ur last reply properly..

you said the bearings beside the ring gear are pretty sloppy...

read my last post above about the bearings.....

i rang up a diff place today got quoted a full rebuild for my r200 ti replace pinion bearings (not your sloppy ones but pretty much may aswell rebuild whole diff if ur doing half the job) and it was around $600. what do you think now lol........ rebuild or buy good 2nd han ddiff?

[Big Boss]

oh okay mini spool sounds awesome!!!

now there is lash in the diff.., people are telling me there is meant to be a bit of play in the diff with the pinion and crown, so then would the lash just be coming from 17 year old oil?

will an S14 diff fit my S13 rear cradle? it's a 6 bolt so the shafts are ok

[1onenil0]

don't quote me on this as i dont own a silvia

but i recall lots of r180 silvias uprgrading to the r200 shortnose, so im sure its easily possible, i dont know whether the tailshaft has to change but im pretty sure the driveshafts just bolt in. So long as you get a diff with the same driveshafts (6bolt or 5 bolt).

Also, look for either ABS or non ABS they are different diffs, and look for the front bolt hole diametre, dont know whether it matters but s14 ones have big holes like 3cm diametre while s13 have like 10mm holes or there abouts...

last thing, the rear cover can change so thats good.



And of course theres always goign to be a bit of play, but 1cm is too much. read up about backlash in diffs and whatever, its stupid to rebuild so just get a new 2nd hand one i suggest, or live with it. all it will do is make noises and wear out quicker but while ur stuffin round with it may aswell fix it. other option is shimming a r200 up

[Big Boss]

1onenil0, on Jun 19 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

hey mate i feel ur pain with the diffs

i suggest:

why are you even thinking about rebuilding? A rebuild will cost you WAY more than a good condition r200, let alone a good cond r180. you wont be able to do it yourself if you don't even know how to weld up the centre and what to look for when welding it up... there are so many thing sto get perfect for it not to wear out quick or make bad noises etc.......

I still suggest buy a 2nd hand r200 lsd for ? $200-250 or a 2nd hand r180 for i dont know around 80-150 and be done with it..

from my limited experience with diffs I would say that the 1cm of turning the tailshaft you can do is because of the ring gear and pinion gear not set up correctly, or just worn... maybe bearings are gone? I dont know the correct wording for it, but backlash, maybe? It's where the ring gear and pinion gear are nto meeting perfectly. Thats why we pay diff rebuilders.

Hope that helps

If you get really stuck i might have a spare r200 LSD here you can check out if you want, im in brisbane..... or an r200 worn out LSD that only single wheels but you could shim it up....

thanks for the reply mate
well i've got my bell housing with the pinion right here, and there's no play at all in the pinion when turning from the tailshaft flange,

so the play or backlash/whiplash is either from worn out crown and pinion teeth, or really old oil. the teeth look fine, edges are sharp as a knife!

any ideas anyone?

[1onenil0]

what do u mean there is no play in the pinion?

i thought before you said there was 1cm play in tailshaft when turning. Then this means the play i scoming from your uni joints in the tailshaft, not the play in the diff.

As for the noise (i forget - was there any) i have no idea where thas coming from now sinec theres no play in your diff as you said....

and what do you mean bell housing? Thats the gearbox?

[Big Boss]

1onenil0, on Jun 19 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

don't quote me on this as i dont own a silvia

but i recall lots of r180 silvias uprgrading to the r200 shortnose, so im sure its easily possible, i dont know whether the tailshaft has to change but im pretty sure the driveshafts just bolt in. So long as you get a diff with the same driveshafts (6bolt or 5 bolt).

Also, look for either ABS or non ABS they are different diffs, and look for the front bolt hole diametre, dont know whether it matters but s14 ones have big holes like 3cm diametre while s13 have like 10mm holes or there abouts...

last thing, the rear cover can change so thats good.



And of course theres always goign to be a bit of play, but 1cm is too much. read up about backlash in diffs and whatever, its stupid to rebuild so just get a new 2nd hand one i suggest, or live with it. all it will do is make noises and wear out quicker but while ur stuffin round with it may aswell fix it. other option is shimming a r200 up

ah, almost forgot about ABS!, thanks mate,

when you say the front bolt hole diameter do you mean the part that bolts on the tailshaft, or the 4 bolts that bolt onto the rear cradle?

i guess the best possible thing to do is to get the R200 bell housing, and throw in a brand new 2 way .

i'm really tired of living with broken things, i need to fix my car properly and never have to worry about it for another 17 years

and also, i think back lash wrecks other things to, like gearbox, a sudden JOLT to the gearbox, suspension pillow tops, engine/gearbox mounts, it all costs $$$$

[Big Boss]

1onenil0, on Jun 19 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

what do u mean there is no play in the pinion?

i thought before you said there was 1cm play in tailshaft when turning. Then this means the play i scoming from your uni joints in the tailshaft, not the play in the diff.

As for the noise (i forget - was there any) i have no idea where thas coming from now sinec theres no play in your diff as you said....

and what do you mean bell housing? Thats the gearbox?

ok, i mean the R200 diff housing, does bell housing refer to the gearbox housing? i thought it just means any housing.

and when i say there's no play in the pinion, that's without the centre/crown in the diff housing, so just turning the pinion on the tailshaft flange there's no slop in that, but when the center is in the diff housing and bolten up, the play is it the two gears

[Big Boss]

hope that makes sence!

[Midnight_Garage]

there will be no play because the front flange is directly connected to the pinion gear. the diff needs to be assembled to feel that.


You can use either an r32 or s13 silvia r200 diff, they bolt straight in. as long as you make sure your half shafts have the same number of bolt holes. Other model diffs will fit too, but you need to use different style front bolts and also swap an s13/r32 rear cover onto it.

[Big Boss]

ah okay, so the S14 item would require a S13/R32 R200 front cover and different bolts on the cradle?

no good then, R32 items some would be ABS, does hicas have any roll in different diffs?

thanks

[1onenil0]

ah yeah,

gearbox bell housing is only for gearbox

diff housing is the word u want

As midnight said you wont feel any play as its just like turning one shaft of course theres goign to be no play, play is between the gears. Imagine two gears meeting at 90 degrees (as they do in the diff). If one gear is 1mm to the left (the big ring gear) or the pinion gear is 1mm too far back or forward, thats going to affect where the teeth meet. If they meet at not the PERFECT way, it will make noise, be clunky, have backlash and will have PLAY what you are feeling. Do you understand ? Just trying to put it into perspective of whats happening......

as midnight said again, swap in those r200 diffs, stronger newer and easy to find. pick up a good condition lsd for around 250 just make sure bout the ABS thing,

And the bolt holes i was talking about are the 2 bolt holes in the actuall diff housing itself, up near the front of the diff. They bolt into your subframe from undernaeth.

remember if ur keen to measure out some stuff or check it out i got 2 r200's here both the style youre after so u can see them in person if u want.

[1onenil0]

refer to thread a few below this one about hicas in a cefiro or something.

And no point swapping the "front cover" by this i think you mean the whole diff. no point swapping the s14 dif into a s13 "front cover" thats basically rebuilding a diff

The rear cover can swap easy just undo 8 bolts and swap them.

U can tell teh ABS diff by a little sensor thing coming off up near the pinion flange. the non ABS dont have this. again one of mine are abs i can show ya

[Big Boss]

explained it perfectly!

but my diff hasn't been touched since the car was made, so the two gears were already lined up perfectly, it's just plainly worn out.

i'll deffinetly look into an R200, is it pretty easy to shim myself? i could save money there

lol the whole time i've been saying the front cover meaning the rear cover ect ect. ah, the 2 front bolts i called the 2 rear bolts. lol

well brisbane is a bit far for me that's all, when checking out an R200 diff for play causing backlash, is it the same as holding both half shafts and moving the tailshaft flange?

thanks

[Big Boss]

i'm on the sunshine coast

[N1_S13]

backlash IS the play.
yes to your question.
buy another r180 diff secondhand, 1.5 way mechanical centre or shim it, done.

[1onenil0]

search up shimming r200 article theres a good one on nearly every nissan website people have copied around. step by step instructions to shimming your r200 lsd.

The play may be from worn out bearings etc too, it wont be because the gears are worn, if they were it'd be more like chunks missing out of them from smashing the gears and you will definitely know when thats happened...

[Big Boss]

okay thanks guys

edit: any body know where you get those rubber rings on the half shaft's that fall out when taking the half shafts out?

they're the same diameter as the half shaft flange, they're 1mm thick

[J_Spec]

that would probably be your oil seal. If it isnt sealed properly on reassembly it will leak oil.
You said that one of the bearings looked bad. That also could be a possible reason for your play in the diff but most unlikely.
In your picture you can see the wear marks on the crown wheel and there on the outside and the inside is all brown indicating there not mating properly.
If you want a budget fix, see the washer that sits in between the right bearing(your picture) and your diff centre if you could put another one(may have to grind it or file it down slightly to make it fit) of them in between the bearing and crown wheel it will push it closer to the pinion gear and should help alot. Just remember you need a sight amount of backlash.

so it shoud help it reasonably to you get some cash up for the r200
I would definately go an r200 though, just by comparing the 2 diffs you can easily spot the r200 is well made and stronger.

Now you went from an automatic to manual conversion, I would reccomend a 4.3 ratio diff in an NA because it has taller Final Drive ratio meaning it will accelerate through gears quicker but the downside will be the gears wont be as long, and I do not know how much your speedo will be off as the auto diff has a ratio of 3.9. But just check the ratio on the side of your crown wheel as it will be marked on there. Or if you cant find it spin the pinion shaft(where the tail shaft connets to) and count how many revoutions you get from the half shaft.

I went from a 4.08 to 4.3 and its better but my speedo is around 5km over then the actual speed

You could minispool your original diff but shim an r200 up as it will be legal for the road as it isnt a locker(around the same cost)

I was up the coast surfing on the weekend so I could of dropped a diff off if you wanted it - will check this arvo how much back lash it has as I know it has some cause it sometimes clunked on me but it could be because the oil was in need of change.
If you need it that is or if you need a diff from brisbane+shim I could drop it off on the way for a surf.
Just helpin out man cos they weigh a bit hahah
Jay

[Big Boss]

that would be really good j spec!

how much do you want for it if the backlash in it is minor?

and thanks alot for the info, i was going to reassemble my diff and try that oil in it but i don't know where you get those little oil seal things, + they were glued on in a specific position i don't think i can get them back on properly ><

i would love for it to be shimmed up tight ! how much extra would it cost? and is it the 6 bolt? with the right 2 front bolts, ect?

so where you can see the brown on the inside of the crown gear that should be polished like the outer edge?

[1onenil0]

download the service manual for any of the silvias found on this nissansilvia website, search for it, its under tech articles i think

go to the diff section

read about diffs

the brown paste should be wearing in exactly the middle of the teeth, heel or toe is bad and means its not set up correctly backlash etc.. it would pay to do a bit of reading handy to have anyway when something else goes wrong theres a lot of info in there

[J_Spec]

The contact should be a bit further down on the teeth. but as it wears it gets play and more backlash.
Will deliver the r180 up there for 70 im outer north brisbane. Had a look at the diff only slightly worn prob only 2-3mm of backlash by hand but not 2sure how much it will have with some force.(needs new oil) - and help you fit it if you want - but be better gettin a r200 man for 100ish 200ish
So if you find an r200 with 6 bolt shafts(3x2) and 4 stud backing plate it will fit fine(s13 backing or cover plate).

If you need any diffs that are in brisbane dropped up there I can do it easy for $20
Try wanted to buy sections on SD and here
let us know what you want to do
Im on SD same user name
Jay

oh yeah if you needed anything shimmed can do it just let us know what u decide
Just to make sure we're on the same page a R180 cant be shimmed but welded because its an open centre
and an R200 diff has a viscous lsd centre which can be shimmed

[Big Boss]

thanks J spec,

and thanks 1onenilo i will read that, i've never realised we could get the manuals

oh sorry jay i thought you said you could bring an R200 down the coast, didn't realise you were talking about an R180

lol

i will look for an R200.

and i'm not sure about the ratio off my diff i'll try and figure out how to check it like you said, but i read on the technical forum here under the title "what diff should i have" that the SR20DE auto came with an 4x1.1 only the SR20DET came with the 3:9 ratio this is what the topic states

i wouldn't mind an welded R180 or a shimmed R200 i don't really care i just want to FLIPPING get back on the road the car has been up on stands for aweek now thanks to my brilliance pulling my diff apart before i had one to go back in, igues i didn't plan on replacing it.

so i'll look for an R200 jay and i'll let you know if i find one, maybe i'll resort to option 1 garage, and get you to shimm it but we'll just see how i go

thanks kindly.

[J_Spec]

Yeah man too easy
Let us know how u go
Jay

[Big Boss]

i got an R200, 4.3, 6 bolt half shafts

from an S13, and it's so damn flipping good. got option1 to shim it to a reasonable degree, and it just churps nicely i can really notice the heavy steering/under steer now!

is it meant to sit so far to the left of the rear cradle? i noticed it went into the other holes on the rear cradle

[J_Spec]

Its alot wider than the r180. So the mounting bolts are spread out on the backing plate more so the weight is distributed better. Just a bigger diff centre so a bigger housing is needed thats why it sits out to the side a bit more. May have to change your driving style a bit to compensate for the understeer but you will get used to it. Finally got the R200 you should be
haha

[Big Boss]

yeah! i am mate!

it's going to be SO good in the rain with my NA sliding machine

i have to change my engine and gearbox mounts over now though, but that's ok it's not raining anyway



thanks for the help again jay!

[Big Boss]

this is so frustrating

so now i've got this diff and it's all good hardly any backlash..

but i test it out and it still does the same thing in first gear

when i let the clutch out with no acceleration and almost stall it rocking back and forth/bunny hopping the whole rear end of the car goes CLUNK CLANG CLUNK really loudly, a friend said it could be my whole rear cradle moving like it needs new bushes

but it could be alot of things right? could it be half shafts, could it be gearbox, crossmember bushes, tailshaft? that's alli can think of that would make this noise

[J_Spec]

Yeah could be subframe bushes or something to do with the driveline. Have a look at movement in driveline parts, bushes and check all the bolts.
I'd say most likely be rear cradle.